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Ever wonder when and how to bring up that conversation with someone new?
Andrea and Hannah dive headfirst into one of dating's most nerve-wracking moments for almost everyone: talking about sex with a new partner. Whether you're the type who finds it easier to be open with strangers or someone who clams up at the thought of discussing boundaries and desires, this conversation will resonate.
What You'll Discover:
Why having "the talk" early actually increases spontaneity (yes, really!)
The surprising difference between discussing safety vs. pleasure - and why both matter
How to navigate the discussion when one person talks about sex easily and the other person struggles
The magic of the 50/50 rule for keeping intimacy balanced
Why "what do you like?" can feel as overwhelming as "tell me your life story"
Practical tips for starting these conversations without killing the mood
From exploring your own pleasure identity to creating space for a partner who's never talked about sex before, this episode offers both the emotional permission and practical tools you need to transform awkward conversations into the foundation for incredible intimacy.
Ready to stop guessing and start communicating? Your future self (and your partners) will thank you.
If you love this episode, Rate and Review us on iTunes
Meet our guest:
Hannah Franklin
Hannah is a neuroscientist and entrepreneur who, like most of us, is curious about sex and how we talk about it. She is very open and has had many deep discussions about sex with her friends, but has always found it a challenge to broach the subject with those she cares most deeply about.
We sat down for a candid conversation on how to make talking about sex easier.
Meet your host:
Andrea Balboni
Andrea is a certified Sex, Love and Relationships Coach at Lush Coaching.
Her mission is to help people experience pleasure and fulfilment in their intimate lives.
From finding love naturally and easily, to deepening connection and resolving conflict with ease, to keeping passion alive over the long-term, Andrea supports individuals and couples in all phases of intimate relationships.
Work with Andrea - Book a 30 minute consultation call and learn how coaching can help.
Let’s continue the conversation
Breaking the Silence: Why Talking About Sex Before You Have It Changes Everything
Andrea: [00:00:00] Hannah is a good friend who like so many of us is deeply curious about sex, but didn't know who to ask about the more perplexing elements of this human experience. Sex is a topic that rarely gets discussed in ways that actually help us have better experiences. Whatever better looks like to you. Even more rare are opportunities to learn from someone who studied it professionally for years.
That's why Hannah and I decided to record our raw conversations about the intricacies of sex and intimacy and share them with you so that you can explore alongside of us. From practical questions like, how do I talk about sex in a new relationship to more esoteric explorations like what makes sex sacred.
We dive into the beautiful complexity of intimate relationships. This is the Lush [00:01:00] Love podcast, and I am your host, Andrea Balboni. I'd love to hear what our conversation brings up for you. So meet me on Instagram and share your thoughts. And if we don't cover something you're curious about, send me a DM and I'll be sure to address it. For now, sit back and listen in.
So, yeah.
Hannah: Where should we begin?
Andrea: Where should we begin? What feels like a good beginning?
Hannah: I guess something that we've spoken about a bit before is, you know, the topic of sex in a new relationship. And where you begin with that I guess.
Andrea: Yeah, so sex in the topic of sex and talking about sex anyway, in general, people we're just not really used to it.
So when it comes then to the pressures of a new relationship, it can be even more kind of, ah, people [00:02:00] can feel a little bit even more apprehensive to talk about sex because they don't know the person, they don't know how it's gonna be received. They're not really sure. How the person might react and because we're so not used to talking about sex openly.
Some people, yes, but many people know we oftentimes don't know quite where to start. Like how do we begin to that question, it's like, how, where do we begin? How do we bring this topic up and. Oftentimes when we do consider talking about sex, it's concerns around safety. Am I gonna have safe sex? Is this person gonna be up for the kind of ways I wanna keep myself safe?
Um, and so protection is like a big way. We think about starting the conversation and we won't necessarily consider pleasure. Like how is the first time that we do come together with this intention, whether it happens or not, [00:03:00] what's going to make for the best scenario for it, like what's gonna be the context that's gonna support pleasure for both of us so that we can be relaxed if we think even beyond just the initial, um, kind of topic of protection.
So I know for you, and it sounds like for, for your friends and the people that you speak with, that in a new relationship, it's kind of the opposite. Like talking about sex with that person is easier because you don't know 'em, so you have less story behind the relationship and what it might mean. And so just kind of wanted, wanting to acknowledge that you could feel more relaxed.
When talking about sex in a new relationship, or it could be the exact opposite. When it is new, you feel more pressure because is that conversation gonna make or break the relationship? Especially in those very, very first kind of weeks or months. It's like, oh, everything feels so, like tenuous and I'm not really sure what's gonna happen.
Um, and I really [00:04:00] want this thing, especially if you're invested. Like, I really want this thing to work with this person. I don't wanna misstep or I don't want them to misinterpret or not understand me. So it can be, um, yeah, it can be quite daunting that first, those first initial conversations.
Hannah: It's really interesting and to kind of echo your, there's sort of two schools of thought, right?
You've got this one side, which is, I don't know you, you know, I, I may never see you again. I'm very happy to say what I want and what I don't want, and you know, and then there's the other side, which is fear of how they're gonna interpret what you said, and you know, what's okay, what's not okay. Are they going to be put off by this kink that I have or the fact that I've, you know, very openly asked them to wrap it up, you know?
Um, so I think it's quite interesting to navigate, you know, the two. And I guess also, you know, on the, on the protection side of things, why is it that we feel so uncomfortable [00:05:00] talking about protection?
Andrea: And just keeping ourselves feeling safe and comfortable.
Hannah: Yeah. It's almost like we would feel more comfortable not saying anything and then, you know, going for a check or, you know, dealing, sourcing things out ourselves later without them around. Why is that?
Andrea: Yeah. Well, I would say when we think of protection, it also often is fear-based.
Hannah: Yeah.
Andrea: So there's kind of like this fear behind it. What's gonna happen if, what's the worst case scenario? And also you're beginning to ask the person maybe what feels like inadvertently about their sexual history.
So how many people have you been in, been with? How safe are you actually? Like, am I gonna be okay? Being this close to you and sharing fluids or sharing like this, this, um, like our, our bodies kind of really coming together. And so it can feel a little bit offputting, um, because there is so much fear because it may also bring up [00:06:00] questions about, well, what if, you know, what if one of us does have an experience that one of us gets pregnant, for example, what would we do then if there's no protection?
And then you're opening kind of Pandora's box of do you wanna have children? Where's this relationship going? And like you say, maybe you're not necessarily even invested in. Having a relationship with that person, you're just maybe interested in an experience or getting to know them, um, or having some, some fun for yourself as well.
Like a period of exploration or just, um, trying different things with different people, trying different people on in, uh, in this way, which can be. Um, if that is, you know, depending on what you really want from the liaison, like that connection with the person can, um, yeah, it can be tricky just to ha to navigate that conversation.
But again, I find it really interesting that you ask, um, the question in this way because for so many people that I speak with, [00:07:00] it's the opposite. So they're okay. They're more okay with saying, I wanna. Let's talk about the protection thing.
Hannah: The safety.
Andrea: Yeah, the safety. Because that's kind of a basic standard. No way in hell am I gonna share with that person a kink. God, I don't even know them.
Hannah: Wow. Interesting.
Andrea: And I'm not even comfortable with my own sexuality or expression of sex to even consider whether there's a kink there or what I want. And I don't even, I'm not even in touch with my own. Pleasure enough to name what I like.
I don't even know how to say what I like. That's a privilege that maybe I've not been privy to. It's not a question I've ever asked myself in a culture where, especially for women, we're not often asked, well, what makes you feel good? It's how are you gonna protect yourself? From pregnancy, from a disease, from it ruining your life.
And then the second question oftentimes is, if ever asked is what do you like? And being able to [00:08:00] connect with pleasure and name it for many people, feels like one, never thought of it. Two, where would I even start in naming things? Three. I'm not even that connected to my body and myself. Because I've never even asked that question.
How do I then share that with another person? Because even connecting with pleasure feels really tender. And really, so I love that you're coming at it from almost like the 180 from what my own, I guess, personal experiences been. And many of the people that I work with is.
Um, because there is absolutely, you know, the world is, is full of people with different ways of coming to things. So, um, I love the fact that in, in your world, the women that you speak with and the people that, that you're in, in connection with, are able to even say, okay, this is what I like. This is how I want it. Whether it's at the beginning of a new relationship and.
You know, we'll talk about the complexities of long [00:09:00] term, um, what it, what it's like to bring the conversation up for the first time long term. But the fact that that is there as a presenting with the first thing, for me, says something about how things have shifted, like at least I wouldn't, I wouldn't necessarily wanna say it's generational because I see, um, all different ages, people of all different ages.
So it kind of sometimes feels age agnostic. Like there's not necessarily a generational thing. It has more to do, I think with conditioning and how you've been, um, how you've learned about pleasure. Or have been exposed to, um, or, or how you've thought about sex and sexuality that determine the questions that you may ask in the comfort level that you have with speaking about, um, about safety or, and or pleasure first. So yeah.
Hannah: You’ve touched on so many important points that I really wanna sort of zoom in on. I'm so fascinated. I think just [00:10:00] going back to the point of safety and protection, I think, you know, it's almost like a bit of a mood kill, right? You know, to bring that up. You're in the moment things are, you know, getting heated up and all of a sudden you're thinking, oh gosh, now I need to have this conversation about what's your sexual history and, you know, um, but it's an incredibly important conversation to have.
And I think as a society, you know, I'm, I'm glad to hear that on the most part. Your, you know, from the people that you've spoken to, that they're more comfortable discussing that than perhaps, you know, what pleasures them. And I think, you know, it's interesting that I've, as, as you said, that I've kind of experienced the opposite.
That, that, you know, it's, it's become. Almost a taboo conversation to talk about protection rather than pleasure, which is really interesting. But I guess moving on from the protection side of things, what you were talking about, which really resonated with me, is like this concept of what are you [00:11:00] into?
What do you like? You know, it's such a difficult question to answer. It's kind of like being asked, you know, when you meet someone for the first time, what's your story? Who are you? You know, all of a sudden it's like you've got ten mirrors around you and you're like, oh my God, who am I? I don't know.
You know, what do I like? And I think articulating that and understanding, you know, your own pleasure identity, pleasure profile, whatever you want to call it. Like that's really difficult. And as you, as you said, you know, you've spoken to many people who haven't yet connected with that side of themselves and they dunno how to even begin to communicate, you know, what brings them the most pleasure and like, yeah, it'd just be really interesting to talk more about that.
Andrea: And sharing with another person. What you like or don't like. They're all very, they all feel like so many of these, the topics from safety to pleasure, to feel like very tender ones. [00:12:00] Like they feel, it feels very vulnerable to share with another person. Even though sex is a natural part of what we do, it's a natural part of the way that we live and who we are as humans.
And for anyone listening, it's kind of like the more that you talk about it with friends, with text positive communities, if your friends aren't really talking about this stuff and many, many people or have, there's no one in my friend group that I speak with or you know, for many people that's. The case, but there are so many communities now and spaces and places where you can begin to listen and learn from other women's experience and then begin to articulate also for yourself, um, and find like words for basically what your experience is.
And, but kind of coming back to how do you do that with someone that is new or someone that you've just met and. The first step I would say is [00:13:00] just outing yourself in a way and saying something like, this is a, a bit of a difficult conversation for me to have. It feels a little awkward bringing it up, and I am interested in seeing where things go with you.
So it's, um, it feels even more. Challenging or difficult to bring this up, but it's really important to me that, um, that we speak to it. And is, would you be open to having a conversation around, around sex and what are um, our first. Kind of time together might, might look like. And this way before you get right into the moment where you're both feeling extra vulnerable and then all the chemicals start running and all of the erotic energies there, the desires there.
It's if you can have that conversation way before that initial first kind of. Possibility is there, um, the better because when you're in it, it's a lot more, there's a lot more happening and going on. [00:14:00] And I am also kind of hearing people say, yeah, right. Whatever. Like, so we're at lunch and it's like, Hey, let's talk about sex.
Hannah: Yeah.
Andrea: And it's kind of like…
Hannah: That’s what I was thinking.
Andrea: Yeah.
Hannah: That's a devil's advocate, right? Is it really that sexy? You're on a date and like. Okay, can we just sort of map out what sex might look like later? You know, is it like a bit, you know, you're assuming that that's gonna happen and then does it not take the mystery outta the sexual experience?
And you know, it may be, um. Yeah, you want to kind of just let the vibe sort of form naturally and then perhaps discuss in the moment, you know, say, no, I don't wanna do that, or Yes, I wanna do this. I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm just thinking that, that some people might, I'm thinking you were like talking about this with my friends, like really like speaking, you are on a first date and you are like talking about, you know, what sex might look like between the two of you, like.
Andrea: Yeah. So totally hear you. And totally get it. And for anyone who [00:15:00] hasn't, I would say, if you haven't tried this, it's kind of like something to try and see what might happen. And how it might shift things when you actually do get to the point of having sex with a person, if you ever do.
Because sometimes I would also float the possibility that. Ironing out or getting clarity on, um, something maybe ironing out, but maybe getting clarity on, uh, what is, um, how to, it's kind of like how to prepare yourselves to have the best possible experience with a person. The best possible experience with a person still could look like anything.
There's still enough mystery, there's still enough kind of magical moments that can happen. There's enough serendipity, there's enough spontaneity. Trusting that desire and pleasure anyway isn't a one way street. The intrinsic nature of orgasmic bliss and pleasure is a thing that gets experienced in the moment.
And the things that can [00:16:00] come up in that moment can be. Anything, it's a wide, vast arena. So by having a conversation prior to actually in a, like, let's say a time and a place where you're gonna do the thing, just says, okay, we're getting, getting the discussion about, um, how we're gonna protect ourselves out of the way.
So in the moment we don't have to feel a disruptive element of, uh, what are we gonna do? It's like we've already agreed before that this is what, um, how we're gonna best keep ourselves protected and. Also having the conversation around what might be a beautiful thing to explain what, how you like to experience sex.
Um, it doesn't have to be articulated. I like this position. I prefer that. And like the other thing…
Hannah: You don’t need to map the whole thing out before it's happened.
Andrea: No. If it's freezing cold in the room or if we're in a semi-public place, I'm not gonna like for the first time, not. Totally gonna be, you know, maybe okay with that, but maybe not.
So if that happens in the [00:17:00] moment, just know I may change and shift. It's nothing to do with you, it's just I've not done this in this kind of environment before. So, and it's, it's sort of. Having enough information and enough things spoken where you both feel like, okay, whew. Good thing it's not like in the moment.
'cause I've had so many of those where I've never spoken about this before and then in the moment it's always like, oh, what's happening? I don't really feel quite, and it's interrupted.
Hannah: Right?
Andrea: That pleasure just because you don't, there's so many questions. That aren't answered.
Hannah: So rather than, because my initial instinct was that, does that ruin the spontaneity, right?
But actually what you're saying, what I'm hearing is that in fact, quite the opposite. You are dealing with the sort of, you are dealing with the admin beforehand.
Andrea: Totally.
Hannah: So that you can actually lean into the spontaneity and in a safe, you know, remove some of the unknowns and, but keep the good unknowns, you know?
Andrea: Yeah.
Hannah: That's kind of, [00:18:00] and, and, and that's sort of flipping what I initially thought on its head in a way.
Andrea: Yeah. Anyway, especially in the beginning when you're in a new relationship, it's a new person, it's a new energy, it's a new experience. So even if you have. You know, and, and we daydream as well, where we, we have, oh yeah.
It would be amazing to be with this person in a com in my bedroom on the, in the kitchen. In the, the forest, like on the beach, wherever. Anyway, anyway, we kind of imagine already, which is a sort of, um, it could be a bit of foreplay, but it also could be a little bit of preparation that we're kind of priming ourselves to have an experience that feels really good.
Hannah: And setting boundaries.
Andrea: And we don't say that that's now no longer. Kind of mysterious or exciting because we've just imagined having sex with 'em on the beach. And guess what? We're going on on a date with 'em on the beach and we're gonna have sex with them on the beach. Like.
Hannah: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andrea: It doesn't ruin the moment of like the sunset and the waves crushing and the sand in your bi- like, yeah, but maybe [00:19:00] you've prepared a little bit for the sand in the, it's like, okay, I may need a moment.
And, um. It's just so you know, like. Uh, and I'm all right with that. And boundaries is also a big one. So if you've, if you're setting boundaries and um. And, and both consenting to kind of like, okay, we're gonna have this experience in this way. Uh, and these, this is the space that we're gonna go into and this, this, these are the places and spaces we're gonna kind of stay away from.
Um, at least initially as we get to know each other. Oh, my goo- my whole body just relaxes. Just having shared that with you, it's like, okay, we can see what happens. And then for the things that I'm not quite sure about, I know that in the moment I can name it. And the person, because we've had this conversation.
Isn't going to, they may still get triggered. They may make meaning out of it. They may say, oh, she's not having a great experience. But also it's kind of like, [00:20:00] okay, and we have spoken about this before, just because we're not doing X or Y doesn't mean anything about what I'm experiencing now. It's just we wanted.
To give this thing a go and see how it felt and stay in the zone. That felt really good. And if we begin to kind of go outside of the zone in the moment, we can shift and change things. And name that. I know we spoke about not doing this thing or doing this thing before, and now that I'm here. It's shifting for me.
Let's, let's go for it. That's okay too.
Hannah: Sure.
Andrea: But you have that, that safe kind of zone set up for yourself where you can just explore within that space and. It's, it's, you know, it is, especially in the newness of things, you are feeling each other out. You are exploring there is that, okay, what is gonna feel good, what isn't gonna feel good?
And you're getting to know the other person as well. Will they respect the boundaries? Can they, um, are they always trying to push the edge of things to [00:21:00] a point where it doesn't quite feel good for you? Can you say, okay, you know. You wanna dial things back or, or stop. And they're making that okay. And it's like, well we have this conversation.
I told 'em it wasn't gonna be about us or, or anything. And they're still not able to kind of hold a boundary. That gives you a lot of information about a person.
Hannah: Sure, sure. Absolutely. And just, it just made me think to all of our friends listening at home, I imagine some people might be thinking. You know, in line with what you were saying at the beginning, which is some people are fearful that if they have these very honest, open, frank conversations in the early stages of relationship, you know, you've gone, you've just met this person, you've gone on a day or two, and all of a sudden you are like setting sexual boundaries and you are having these conversations of what you want and don't want, and they might feel worried.
That being so open might put the other person off, or, you know, whether it's because, um, [00:22:00] they're put off by this pers by the other person's sexual preferences or desires, or they've just kind of got the ick, you know, because they've been really open about setting boundaries, which is, you know, in my opinion, get rid, because anyone that's gonna get the I, because you're setting boundaries, is not someone who should be entertaining.
But anyway. But to, to your point earlier about people that are fearful of being honest about their sexual preferences and desires, like what would you say to them?
Andrea: I would say if you have a strong yes, you're also gonna have a strong no. And. If you're a maybe owning it, I'm a maybe on this, I'm not sure.
As the person on the other side who wants you, is invested in and is interested in, um, and you enough and your pleasure enough and your experience enough to want that, the experience together is really good, is gonna set, relax back and be like, whew. She's clearly a yes on this. That's a go zone for me. I [00:23:00] know where to go.
I know what to do. I'm gonna get a guaranteed positive response. Oh my goodness, right? For like green card go card, I can go there and it's gonna be well received. She's a strong no. Or he is a strong No, I know not to go there. Like I want this to be a positive experience for myself or the other person for the potential thing that this could become, whether a lover or a long time partner or maybe both or some, you know, iterations, like some, um, kind of.
I guess a combination of that then that is, it's, it's, it's so much easier when a person is clear about their yes and their no to one trust, what they say as true, and to know where to go and how to please them. It's, it's a green card. It's like I can relax back. I can use my imagination within that.
Yes, I'm gonna stay away from the no in that space of maybe I'll be [00:24:00] sure to be aware and sensing into and asking explicitly, is this feeling okay? How are you doing? How's it tracking? I'm happy to go back into the, you know, into other things. Or, you know, are you okay in this? And ah, I want, you know, this is feeling okay, let's go a little further.
Or now it's turning into a no. Okay. No. Yeah. And so it's, it really helps that other person to kind of have this beautiful experience of pleasure because you know where to go.
Hannah: And it takes the guesswork out of it, right?
Andrea: Takes the guesswork out of it.
Hannah: You know, and I think the alternative is you don't say anything and you just let you know perhaps a relationship run its course or the evening.
It might be an evening. It might be, you know, a few evenings or days. Or mornings. Um, or it might be a relationship and then you end up in a position where you are. Lying there, and he's like, rubbing your thigh and you are.
Andrea: Yeah, you’re like, I’ve always hated that.
Hannah: Well, you know, and you are just like what are you doing? [00:25:00] And it's kind of like, well, actually, you know, if you'd had that conversation earlier about you know, what your boundaries are, what you like, what you don't like, or even just. In the moment, let's say for whatever reason you haven't had that conversation beforehand and you are having intercourse, and in the moment you are like, Hmm, no, not a fan of that, or, oh yeah, I like that, or maybe, you know, slower or over here or whatever, then you know that's.
It, there's still a bit of guesswork there, but at least you are sort of refining the direction. But, you know, the alternative, you don't have these conversations is that you could be 10 years down the line and then it's so tough to to, to bring it up. And that's also something that, that we are both keen to talk about is how do you have that conversation when you've been with someone for a long time and you realize actually things could be better and I'm not happy with our sex life.
Um, but I wanted to just go back to, um, talking about. Connecting with yourself and your pleasure and what you [00:26:00] like, and that whole, you know, what do I like? I don't know. You know, if, if someone came to you and said, you know, how do I connect with myself in that way?
And, and I feel like I am a sexual person and I, and I feel like I haven't yet, um, fully experienced, like the potential of what I can feel and I want to sort of connect more with, with my desires and my passions. You know, what, what would you say to them?
Andrea: Mm-hmm. What I always say is self pleasure. So masturbation to be for people who aren't in the euphemistic, kind of the self pleasuring yourself first.
Knowing your body first, exploring your, your body first. Is what I often respond, and then some people right away will respond. Well, I know that when I'm with my own self I just don't know that when I'm with another person. I can't access it. So there are, there's nuance there for sure, and everyone's a bit different.
[00:27:00] Uh, and many people haven't explored their bodies, haven't felt safe to, so my own personal experience was, I felt safe enough with other people. I didn't feel safe enough with my own body.
Hannah: Interesting.
Andrea: Because I learned very early on probably. Before I can even remember that touching myself and feeling pleasure wasn't okay.
Maybe I was little and, and my, you know, maybe my parents saw me touching myself. Who knows? You know, when kids are little, they're exploring their bodies and I got shut down for it. Um, also probably had to do something, um, something could do with my, um. My Roman Catholic upbringing and accessing pleasure in my own body anyway, for, for different people.
It's different. Um, so I had to learn how to. Come and come back and, well, it felt like almost for the first time, explore my body and give myself permission to go there and begin [00:28:00] to allow myself to experience pleasure that just comes from the inside out. Just because this is how our bodies are constructed.
Um, and. Set up for pleasure and accessing pleasure. And so that for me was a big part of my own personal journey. And for many women that I work with, uh, that's a great place to start because you can lock the doors. No one needs to be witnessing. There's no one around. It's you and the relationship that you have to your body and to the pleasure in it.
And beginning to kind of work through the stuff that's maybe keeping you back from experiencing the full range of pleasure there. So that is a great place to start for some women. Um, and men both, I would say. Uh, I work with a lot of women, so I tend to kind of default to women, but I also work with a lot of men just in a bit of a different.
Oftentimes in a [00:29:00] different way than with women, but many times also in a very similar way.
Hannah: Right.
Andrea: Which is always surprising. Um, always surprising to me and to the people that I speak with. Uh, but anyway, so if it's. Beginning to really connect with your body and giving yourself permission to feel pleasure, um, on your own is one way in.
If you're like, yep, I'm totally okay with that. It's when I'm with a partner that things get a little bit. I just don't, I just haven't ever orgasmed with a partner. I've never, or some women have never been with another person, dunno where to start, or they haven't been with someone for a very long time.
And our bodies and our pleasure change, um, over time as well. So how you access pleasure when you are at one phase of life may change dramatically after, say if you've given birth to children or if you've transitioned. Um, if you're perimenopausal or menopausal, like things can change and just our bodies are constantly changing as well.
So re-exploring pleasure and opening [00:30:00] yourself up to the fact that it may show up differently. Depending on where you are in the. Experiences that you've had in life can be a, a bit of an access, um, into pleasure. Again, if we're, and I'm, I do this sometimes too, maybe a little bit more with exercise and things like that, but it's like, why can't I be like I was when I was 18?
Like, or why isn't it like when I was 28? It's, it's coming to acceptance that it's different now. It's not less than better than. It's, it's different how you, and there are beautiful gifts of the experience of pleasure at different ages and phases of life. So also opening up and shifting mindset can help.
Um, and then for women who are like, yeah, okay, you know, I can do this with my own body, but with a partner it's much different. Then this almost, um, can feel. A bit more daunting whether you're with someone for a long time or with someone new because you don't always want [00:31:00] to like, you know, admit that actually I'm not feeling much pleasure because you don't wanna disappoint the other person.
Hannah: Yeah.
Andrea: And then you also don't wanna feel broken. Yourself. You're like, no, they're gonna think I'm broken. I think I'm broken. Like, why isn't this working? Sexuality and our experience of pleasure is actually very complex and nuanced. And so the kind of the way forward in the solution, the solutioning, um, or the opening up to new experiences, the pathway can be different for different, uh, different people.
So starting, um, to know or beginning to notice. What does feel really good in your body and asking for more of that is a great way to start too.
Hannah: And I guess, you know, perhaps, and I was just thinking, you know, it's so nuanced. It's so complicated, and. You mentioned, you know, this could be so different from one person to the next, but it's also can be so different for the same [00:32:00] person from one day to the next.
You know, there are so many influences, our hormones, our cycles. You know, something I'd love to talk about is, you know, the influence of antidepressants and, and things like that. You know, the sort of. The brain orgasm axis, if you like. Um, there's so much at play and there's so much to consider, and that's even if you are just on your own, let alone when you bring another person into the mix.
And I guess, you know, something that I'd love to ask you is what I've definitely been guilty of in the past. You know, and I, hopefully this resonates with other people. I feel pretty comfortable when it comes to giving myself pleasure. I know what I like, you know, I can get there pretty quickly. I know what I'm doing when it comes to navigating that with someone else.
I've tend, I I, I've sort of fallen into this trap in the past where I'm kind of overwriting what I know. I like to pleasure the other person at a cost, you know? And I kind of slipped into [00:33:00] that, uh, in early on into a relationship. And then I sort of got to the point where I'm like six months in or a year or two or three years in, and I'm like, oh gosh, if only I was honest, you know, at the beginning, I wouldn't be in this position now, which is, you know.
Let's say not as good as it could be. Um, and again, we'll get to the sort of navigating that, that part, you know, in an established relationship later. But I guess you know what, you know, can you unpick why people might. Be comfortable with their own pleasure and know what feels good, but in the moment, kind of push that to one side and almost just ride on the other person's pleasure.
Andrea: Mm-hmm. And this is, I've seen this happen in for, for men and for women where they push what they want and need aside in order to make sure the other person is okay, the other person is experiencing what they want and. To be quite frank, it's exhausting. And then you don't [00:34:00] wanna have sex at all because it's a chore and there's so much work to do because you're working so hard for the other person.
That all of the energy is going there and you're left pretty wiped out actually. Because you're, you aren't receiving the nourishment that pleasure brings. And so this is a really complex one as well. And so to kind of. Say just a really short way of saying it, but again, it's, it's nuanced and complex is keeping 50%, let's say, of the attention and focus on yourself, your pleasure, what you're experiencing, and then 50% of the focus and, um, awareness on the other person and what they're experiencing and being sure that, um.
And the, and the dynamics of this can, can be, again, like I was saying, a bit complex, but to be sure that as much attention as you're giving to yourself, you're [00:35:00] also with the other person and have them, um, there along with you. Uh, throughout the experience. And so coming back to kind of like our initial, um, question, which is how do we talk about sex in a new relationship or how do you bring this up at the very beginning is to definitely be sharing with the other person what you're experiencing as you're moving through it.
And this, if you can't find the words, can be done with sound. It can be done with, um, movement. It can be done, um, yeah. In, in different ways of kind of expressing that you're liking something. Or enjoying something, asking for more of what. You love and letting the other stuff go um, is one way to begin to express what feels really good for you.
And the other person is going to love hearing what it is that you're enjoying, what it is that you find pleasurable. It's going to inspire [00:36:00] them to also respond and, and give as well.
Hannah: Feedback's great, right?
Andrea: Feedback is so good. Whatever, however, it can be through sound. And you'll develop a vocabulary with your, with your lover, with the person that you are intimate with, um, over time as well.
So it could be something that develops if, again, if language is really difficult or you can't find words, um, moving closer towards, uh, or drive away from what doesn't work is. Is also, also can work in that, in that very beginning, um, time. So I'm not sure I answered your question.
Hannah: No, you absolutely did. And it's so articulately, you know, it's such a nuance and complex thing and it's so different from person to person, as I said, you know, with one person other than with two people or more people.
Um, but I think I, I definitely think you've sort of communicated the essence of it. Um, and I think it's, you know, what I'm hearing is like authenticity. I think [00:37:00] being your most authentic self and being communicative of what you you need and setting those boundaries is the kind of the best, you know, way to the best foundation that you can lay when it comes to, you know, navigating pleasure and sex and relationships. And the earlier you have these conversations, the better.
Andrea: So much better. And also because it sets a standard for. The relationship it sends, set sets a really great foundation for open, honest communication, which is really the bedrock of a healthy relationship.
And I'm just gonna voice again, it's, it's not, um, I don't wanna make it more difficult by saying it's not easy, but just know if it were so simple to show up authentically and to speak your voice and to say what you needed to say.
Whilst considering what the other person has bandwidth to hear is something that takes practice and it's not necessarily how [00:38:00] we are in the world. It's not always safe to be.
Completely wide open and not always appropriate to be completely wide open. However, when we can show up, as you say, authentically, which is kind of a word we use a lot now, but when for me it's more about degrees of vulnerability as well. So the more that you can show up and show up as. You are, and with the experiences that you're having in an honest and open way, as much as feels safe for you and as much as the other person is able to receive it, um, is really the key.
It really is. And if a person isn't able to hear you. And be with you in a way that you feel you need to be able to relax into the level of intimacy that, uh, is presenting itself, then you know, okay, maybe it's not quite the [00:39:00] time to go there. Yeah. Until they're able to be with you in the way that you need as well.
So it's not about forcing them to listen or hear everything that you have to say, if they really can see me. The way people can, if they get overwhelmed and they don't really know how, it's, it's letting there be space for that person to grow into authenticity and showing up and open and honest communication with you. So, um.
Hannah: That really just sort of resonated with me what you just said. You know, I think. It's almost a fear that the other person's not gonna be able to match your, you know, openness and vulnerability and even just have the vocabulary. And, you know, I've experienced that myself and I think, you know, if someone can create that space and hear what you have to say, take that on board.
Whilst also acknowledging they might might not have that insight themselves or be able to like, you know, mirror what you said. That's okay. And I [00:40:00] think, you know, it's, it's another important point that I'm sure resonates with a lot of people listening is what happens when two people have different.
Libidos different previous experiences sexually, you know, I mean, there's, there's so much that we can talk about here, but you know, you, let's say we're talking about new relationships and sex in new relationships. One person's coming in and they are very comfortable talking about what they like and pleasure and orgasm and trying different things.
And you know, we spoke about the terrifying question of what do you like? And let's say, you know, the person, I don't know. I don't know. I am. This is new territory for me. I've never spoken about sex before having sex or after sex. I just do the sex, you know? But I think I'd be interested to hear your thoughts, but you know, for me, I, I felt like if that person can create that space.
They hear what you have to say. They take it on board and you know, they bring that into [00:41:00] practice and then they sort of get more comfortable over time, sort of building that for themselves. And then they can communicate that with you. But I dunno if you have any thoughts about how to navigate that.
Andrea: Yeah. So, uh, yeah, I do. No, it is, it's, this is where. This is where I, we come back to the question of how can this conversation or having this kind of conversation be, one, make an experience boring or not spontaneous, or not open for surprise or mystery or discovery because there's so much here. There's so much here.
It's so layered and um, it, sex happens on all the levels of being your physical body. Your emotions are involved. There's mind stuff going on. There's energy that's being exchanged. Things are happening in all the ways. It's, it's, and that's a [00:42:00] beautiful thing. And so if you consider this more as, even if it's just one night, a journey of discovery, like a journey of, uh, it's more like an exploration or an adventure.
Rather than, we know the route we're gonna take, we're gonna go this way, we're gonna do this thing. It's more of this is the territory we're gonna explore. This is what, where we're going to be.
Hannah: So we've spoken a lot about, you know, if you are feeling unsure or disconnected from your own sexuality and pleasure, identity, and struggling how to communicate that to a partner in a new relationship. But what if you are quite comfortable with that and you come into a new partnership or sexual, you know, experience and you are, you are able to very clearly communicate what you like and establish your boundaries and, and what you don't like.
But the person that you are sharing this experience with doesn't have that vocabulary and has [00:43:00] never, you know, been able to articulate what they like and don't like. Have you got any advice for people on how to navigate that?
Andrea: Yeah, so. For the person who is able to be comfortable with things and talk about things, it's likely also that they're able, maybe because they have the space to kind of notice what the other person is experiencing.
So if you notice the other person kind of clamming up or becoming really uncomfortable, just maybe saying, okay, I'm noticing that this maybe isn't the easiest conversation for you to have, and I get that. For not everyone's used to talking about sex and, and, and be with it in the way that that I am.
So we'll just take it as it comes. We'll go as slowly as you need to. And checking with 'em, how does that sound? And seeing how they respond and going slowly, taking the steps that, that both of you are ready for really is, is the key.
Hannah: And just a follow up question to that, [00:44:00] if you are, um, as I said, if you are able to communicate to your partner what, what you like, and you're sort of asking what do you like and they don't know, like, how do you then create that space for them to.
Potentially explore a little bit. Um, you don't want to put pressure on them or make 'em feel uncomfortable, but their sex isn't good enough for your sex because it's, you know, but, but, you know, create that space to help them explore a bit or, or, yeah.
Andrea: So again, I would say if you've done a bit of exploration with your, with yourself, and if you've, and maybe you've always been this way, so it's hard for you to kind of step out of that and see how, for another person it might not be so easy, but, um, making it easier for them.
Some of the ways that you could kind of lead this is saying, okay, when you, when something feels good. Could you let me know by asking for more of that?
Hannah: Yeah, okay.
Andrea: Um, or [00:45:00] if you, and just simply say, yep, this feels good, keep going. Or if there's a different kind of quality of touch that you'd prefer, or a speed that you prefer, or a, like a pressure, a texture, or something else that you want to experience to request it, I'm okay with hearing that.
Like it's absolutely okay. And, um, really noticing if, as much as possible, how much the other person's experiencing. Some people it will be easier to read this than with others. So it's doing that dance and making it more and more okay for the other person to really have the experience that they're having and for you to be okay with whatever experience that they're having as well.
So the more acceptance and compassion you can bring to the situation and to the experience of other. Then generally that is the best formula for things kind of going in a way that will be positive, positive experience for both of you.
So, um, yeah, certainly not putting pressure on the other [00:46:00] person to speed up or to, and I feel like many, um, especially with women feel like they've gotta speed up to kind of, I have to experience pleasure in this way and it's gotta build within X amount of time when the actual effect of the matter is for many women. Uh, and for. For most women, it takes more time than certainly we learn that it should take and that's okay.
So becoming also more okay with this thing that it's going to take the time that it takes, and if you're worried or nervous about the time that it is taking, you can articulate that and request that the other person letting them know that you are enjoying the experience. It is that your body is where it's at and things are taking the time that it's taking.
And the more that you can be okay with it, the more the other person will become, hopefully okay with it should they be able to feel into things.
Hannah: I think that's really, really good advice. And I [00:47:00] think that point that you just raised about, you know. Not being too hard on yourself, you know, which I think many of us are guilty of in all aspects of our life.
Um, but I think especially, you know, your brain is your biggest sexual organ. Right. And I think if you're trying so desperately to, you know, show up in a certain way to please someone else. You are gonna, you are, you are putting roadblocks in place and, and you're not gonna enjoy and have that pleasure, pleasurable experience that you want to have, and neither will they.
Because humans, you know, smell and you know when someone's uncomfortable and they can feed off that energy. So I think it's, yeah. Anyway, it's really, really interesting and we've covered a lot of ground and obviously like what I'm hearing and I'm sure what other people are hearing is, it's so complicated, it's nuanced, you know, and there's no one size fits all.
Everyone has different experiences and individuals can have different experiences themselves. So I guess if we can try [00:48:00] and distill into sort of like a couple of points. What you think is like the most useful advice for people that are asking that question. How do I talk about sex in a new relationship?
Andrea: So the first thing that I would like to normalize is that, uh, for most people it feels awkward. So if it feels awkward, and if you're like, I shouldn't be stumbling, you know, it should be easier. Well, we're not so practiced in this. And so it's more that it, it, you can make an assumption it's gonna be a bit awkward and feel a bit odd and know that you'll be better off for having had it had the conversation however it evolves.
Um, and that it's the, if it's the first time you're having the conversation or even the fifth time you're having the conversation, it can still feel a bit awkward. Uh, and so. That's okay. It's, the more that we do the new thing, the easier that it becomes. We know this. And um, so as much as we would love to be articulate and have it feel [00:49:00] free and easy, it's like, it's probably gonna feel a little bit crunchy at first, the first times around, um, if not with every new person, because everyone's different.
The more comfortable you get in having that conversation and outing yourself and saying, yeah, it's gonna be a bit, it's a bit maybe difficult for me to say this, but starting there can be a really good place to start. That's the first, the earlier on in the relationship or the earlier on that you do this, the better.
So that it establishes a ground for open, honest communication. Even if it feels awkward, or especially if it feels awkward. So difficult conversations are gonna come up throughout the lifetime of your relationship, whether you're with the person for. 10 minutes or 10 years or, or decades in, there's always gonna be difficult conversations that wanna be had because we're, we can't anticipate all of the road the bumps and all the changes and all the transitions of life.
So establishing the fact [00:50:00] that it is safe to have difficult conversations, even if they don't sound perfect, just by beginning that conversation is my second. Um, kind of tips so the earlier on you can establish it's safe to have difficult conversations. By having that conversation, the better. The longer you wait, it can feel, and we'll talk about this in a subsequent episode, the longer you wait, it can almost feel like more difficult, um, and tricky.
However, if that solid foundation of it is safe to have difficult conversations. Even if it feels tender, even if it feels vulnerable, then we can go there and I know it's gonna be okay. That is great. And the third tip I would say is start small. So you don't have to jump in there with like your deepest darkest king or your deepest, brightest king.
Hannah: Yeah.
Andrea: Or kind of like the thing you've always wanted to try, but haven't found anyone to try it with yet. It's like start [00:51:00] small. Start with the things that feel okay to verbalize okay to voice for yourself and the receptivity of the other person. Are they able to to hear stuff? Are they able to be with stuff?
You ask a great kind of question, like, what if the other person isn't so used to having these conversations? Okay. So you start small, but you start and you can always build from there and explore deeper, um, from there. And even if you do share a kink, it doesn't mean that you've gotta live it out or act on it.
Sometimes just voicing that interest can be really liberating and enough. And other times it wants to be lived out. But starting small, starting with the stuff that just feels like the basics, uh, around pleasure, what's gonna make for the best kind of experience and, um, protection. What's gonna make you and help you to feel safe and, um.
Like you're taking care of yourself and the other person feels taken care for, taken care care of. Uh, then that is also a good place to start. [00:52:00] Yeah. And I have a guide. There is a guy, so there is a PDF. It's pretty, it's a pretty basic one, but it gives sort of some great tips. If you wanna go a little bit deeper, get some more kind of tips on how to start these conversations and what to talk about and how to do them.
Like should I be texting this stuff or does it have to be in person? Like when's the best time, what do I share? The first, all this kind of stuff is in, also in a PDF. Um, so if you wanna go deeper then we'll put the link in. I think we said the show notes. We'll put the link in below, so if people wanna, um, download that they can.
And if they have questions, if you have anyone's listening and they have questions that haven't been answered or spoken to, then definitely, um, they can be in touch with me. I'm on Insta or through my website, I’m here to, to help.
Hannah: Amazing. Well, if this conversation's anything's go by, I have no doubt that the PDF and everything else is gonna be super informative. I've learned a lot. [00:53:00] Um, and I can't wait to dig into, I've got so many questions and I could talk about this for hours and you are so easy to talk to. Um, but I guess let's, let's hold something back and save it for the next episode.
Andrea: Sounds good. Can't wait. Looking forward to it.
Hannah: Okay. How do you wrap one of these things up?
Andrea: Lemme just say. See you next time.
Hannah: See you next time.
Andrea: Thank you.
Hannah and I would love to hear from you, especially if what we've discussed has been something you've been sitting with for a while. Comment on this episode or connect with us on Instagram to continue the conversation. And if today's discussion stirred something deeper in you and you'd like to explore your own relationship with intimacy in a more personalized way, I'm here for that too.
Private coaching sessions offer you the chance to address your specific questions and challenges [00:54:00] with a focused attention and support that you deserve. To learn more about working with me one-to-one, visit my website lushcoaching.com. That's L-U-S-H-C-O-A-C-H-I-N-G dot COM, or send me a DM on Instagram.
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