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In the previous episode, Andrea and Hannah talked about the challenges and joys of talking about sex with someone new. In this episode, they dive deep into the complexities of sex and intimacy in long-term relationships. They explore the nuances of discussing sex with your partner, whether you've been together for six months or sixteen years.
What you'll discover:
Practical tips for initiating and navigating sex talks with your partner
The importance of creating a safe and non-judgmental space for intimate conversations
How to understand and communicate your 'erotic blueprint' for a more fulfilling sex life
Expert insights on supporting each other through sexual changes and transitions
Strategies for addressing mismatched libidos and keeping passion alive
The impact of life changes and hormonal shifts on sexuality and intimacy
How open dialogue can deepen your connection and enrich your relationship
Join Andrea and Hannah as they demystify sex in long-term relationships and provide a roadmap for enhancing your intimate connection. This honest conversation will leave you feeling empowered and ready to explore the depths of your relationship in whole new ways.
If you love this episode, Rate and Review us on iTunes
Meet our guest:
Hannah Franklin
Hannah is a neuroscientist and entrepreneur who, like most of us, is curious about sex and how we talk about it. She is very open and has had many deep discussions about sex with her friends, but has always found it a challenge to broach the subject with those she cares most deeply about.
We sat down for a candid conversation on how to make talking about sex easier.
Meet your host:
Andrea Balboni
Andrea is a certified Sex, Love and Relationships Coach at Lush Coaching.
Her mission is to help people experience pleasure and fulfilment in their intimate lives.
From finding love naturally and easily, to deepening connection and resolving conflict with ease, to keeping passion alive over the long-term, Andrea supports individuals and couples in all phases of intimate relationships.
Work with Andrea - Book a 30 minute consultation call and learn how coaching can help.
Let’s continue the conversation
Breaking the Pattern: How to talk about sex with your long-term partner before it’s too late
Andrea: [00:00:00] Hannah is a good friend who like so many of us is deeply curious about sex, but didn't know who to ask about the more perplexing elements of this human experience. Sex is a topic that rarely gets discussed in ways that actually help us have better experiences. Whatever better looks like to you. Even more rare are opportunities to learn from someone who studied it professionally for years.
That's why Hannah and I decided to record our raw conversations about the intricacies of sex and intimacy and share them with you so that you can explore alongside of us. From practical questions like, how do I talk about sex in a new relationship to more esoteric explorations like what makes sex sacred.
We dive into the beautiful complexity of intimate relationships. This is the Lush [00:01:00] Love podcast, and I am your host, Andrea Balboni. I'd love to hear what our conversation brings up for you. So meet me on Instagram and share your thoughts. And if we don't cover something you're curious about, send me a DM and I'll be sure to address it. For now, sit back and listen in.
Hannah: Hello again.
Andrea: Hello, Hannah. How you doing?
Hannah: Good, thank you. How are you?
Andrea: Doing all right. Thank you. Excited for our conversation today.
Hannah: Me too. So we've covered a lot so far, and we touched a bit upon how to navigate the topic of sex in a new relationship. Um, which I think we both came to the conclusion that it's pretty nuanced and complicated, but your advice was, you know, have that conversation, have it early, and keep it simple, which I think is fantastic advice.
So I think what a lot of people might be thinking and I'm definitely thinking about is, okay, that's, [00:02:00] that's great. But what about when you've been with someone for a little while and you want to bring up the conversation of sex? It may be because you are not necessarily quite satisfied with, with your sex life or, um, you know, for whatever a variety of reasons things have changed and you want to talk about it.
It's more complicated perhaps than with someone that you've only just met. Um, so it'd be great to kind of dig into that and hear any advice you might have.
Andrea: Mm-hmm. So if you've never talked about sex before with your partner openly, then yes, it can definitely feel hard, difficult, and also complicated. Or if you've maybe spoken about sex, but it's always been great and now things are changing, then it can also feel tough as well because instead of saying, yeah, I love the sex we have, it's so great being intimate with you.
It's like, ah, it's not feeling as good as it [00:03:00] used to, or my body isn't responding like it used to. And even that question kind of is a person who's maybe had a little bit of, uh, thought around what is going on with them, um, or for people who have never spoken about it and get to a point in their lives where they're like, okay, I don't think we're having the sex that we could be having, or I'm not experiencing pleasure, like I would like to and and never have.
Then how do you bring that up? 'Cause it can feel like, hmm, you don't wanna hurt the other person. You don't want the other person to be offended. And also, again, it might just feel awkward or you might just not know, like, how do I bring this up and how do we talk about this and how do we navigate it? What's going on? So many different questions.
Hannah: Talking about, you know, you've been in a relationship for a while and you've never spoken about sex.
Andrea: Mm-hmm.
Hannah: And so it's, you know, you've kind of perhaps had a bit of a realization that, you know, could it be better? Is there more to explore? You know, am I [00:04:00] pleasuring my partner? Do they, you know, is, is, is, is this something that we could level up?
Andrea: Mm-hmm.
Hannah: You know, or it could, you know, it could be better, but we've never spoken about it. So how do you bring that up after 2, 5, 10, 15 years?
Andrea: Yeah. So actually quite similar to talking about sex in a new relationship, outing yourself first and saying it's quite awkward because we've never really talked openly about this, have we?
You can even ask the person for valid, like, you know, confirming. Yeah, we've never really talked about it. Um, and it's important to me because I would love to experience something with you that maybe is a bit different from what we have, or I would love to explore this with you and I'm just not quite sure how to go about it.
So can we have a conversation inviting the conversation in? Can we have a conversation about sex and our intimate life? Is there a good time? Is there a good place? So [00:05:00] when you invite that conversation for the first time, it again probably will feel awkward even if you've been with someone for a long time because it's the first time you've spoken openly about it.
And there may be a lot that's not said and a lot that's assumed. Um, so knowing it's gonna maybe, potentially feel a bit awkward, inviting the conversation in. And when you invite the conversation in, it's not about having the conversation in that moment because a person may feel like, oh my goodness, not quite ready.
Don't know what you know, wow, where'd this come from? Out of the blue, I thought everything was okay. Like I thought we were fine. Um, so asking, is there a good time? Is there a good place? And are you open to having this conversation with me? And seeing how they respond to that. Then deciding together on a good time.
So like we spoke about before, in a new relationship, best not to do it when you're naked in bed together and feeling super vulnerable.
Hannah: Sure.
Andrea: Or [00:06:00] great to have the conversation when you both aren't super tired and just don't have the time. So making sure you've got a bit of time together and that it's not necessarily when you're in the middle of or about to start having sex. It's okay, let's talk about this thing.
Let's have lunch together tomorrow, or coffee, um, outside of the bedroom as well. So that context can be quite charged. Or if you are even outside of your home, can make it feel like, okay, we're having this conversation in
Hannah: neutral
Andrea: a more neutral place rather than having, connecting it with, um, with the past or things that you've experienced so you can kind of set a new ground.
Hannah: And you’re kind of on a level playing field in a way. You're both equally comfortable and equally equipped to bring something to the table in that conversation instead of one person being caught off guard, I guess.
Andrea: Exactly. So giving that person also, you know, a chance to say, yeah, Tuesday at 10. Looks great. [00:07:00] Or say at five is pretty free. Let's, let's do it then. It gives them the time that they need to kind of process through, okay, maybe there are some things that might be there for us to be with. So.
Hannah: I think that's really good advice. I've never thought about it in that way. You know, I'm such an impulsive, impatient person.
I'm like, I wanna have this conversation now. And that doesn't necessarily work for everyone, and I think it's really valuable to actually just take a step back and sort of say, okay. I'm setting my intention. I wanna have this conversation like, would you know, will you come meet me halfway? Where, you know, where would you be most comfortable having it at what time?
You know, you are saying, I wanna have this conversation, so you tell me a time that you feel most comfortable doing it and having it. You know, I think that's a really nice way to, for both people to come into the conversation like prepared, open, equipped, you know, I think that's really important.
Andrea: And also the creating this, we use this term a bit more now and kind of, you know, everyone's saying create a safe space. Create a safe [00:08:00] space. Well, what is that safe space? And so what you described is the beginning of creating safety, um, what is, this would work for me. How does it feel for you? Or, uh, this is what I would like to have happen.
This is a conversation that I would like to have. What do you suggest for a time or a place? So already you're creating a bit of safety. What's good for the both of us? So that both of you can relax back into the conversation.
Another thing that can help it feel safe for both people is really making it easy for the conversation to happen. And what I mean by that, when conversations and sharing feel easy is when we know we're not gonna be judged or that things won't be brought up in a way where we're using that information, um, or experienced as blackmail or manipulative, manipulating a situation in some way.
So again, saying [00:09:00] this is not a time for, kind of, I won't be judging what's happened or I won't, I'm not judging the quality of the experiences that we're having. I just wanna share what I'm experiencing and hear how you are experiencing it too, because, well, this is a bit, me being kind of, I guess, coachy around it, but it would be, um, I might follow that with something like what I'm experiencing, maybe something very different from your experience, what you're experiencing.
I don't know. I'm curious. I'm really curious about what you might have to say and what your experience is, because I know what I'm experiencing, I'm just not sure about what you are, where you're at with it. And I'm, and I'd love to know, I'd be, I'd be really curious.
Hannah: I think that's really important because, you know, as you were talking, I was thinking some people, even if they have time to prepare for this discussion, might take what their partner is saying quite personally is, you know, the [00:10:00] whole relationship's flawed.
What are we even doing here? Why are you with me? If you, if you're so unhappy sexually, why are we still together? You know, and, and you know, I guess it's what you're saying is it's super important to kind of set that intention and tone beforehand of like, this is not, you know, I'm, I'm not going in on our relationship being terrible, and this is not accusatory or combative in any way.
This is just, I want to share how I feel about it and I want to hear how you feel about it, and then we can together work from it, you know? From this valuable information and feedback. Mm-hmm. We were talking about feedback, it's,
Andrea: yeah
Hannah: it's like gold.
Andrea: Yeah.
Hannah: And having that understanding what the other person is experiencing. So to your point. A lot of couples who come to me will say, will have this fear around what it means about their relationship because they've either stopped having sex, they haven't had sex in a really long time, sometimes decades. Yeah. So sometimes it's years, sometimes it's [00:11:00] months, sometimes it's decades.
Uh, what does this mean about us? Does it mean we're not meant to be together? Does it mean that we are not in a healthy relationship? Does it mean that I am not as, you know, sexy as I, I should be, or that the other person, like we make meaning out of what's happening or what's not happening, and it's not necessarily, let's say, indicative of the quality of your relationship, the quality of, the, maybe the quality of the life that you've built together, it's just something that you're experiencing together.
And that can also feel like you're experiencing it quite separately if you haven't connected on it before. And it doesn't, certainly doesn't mean that your relationship is doomed. Um, and it does what, what I would say it it asks for is calling for is exactly what you shared of how can we come together, [00:12:00] speak about something that is maybe feeling quite challenging to kind of verbalize and talk about or, or be with and find a way through it together. Are we able to do that? Are we able to move through that process and come to a different place?
Is that part of how we wanna be in how we relate to one another? And that's more tells me more about the quality of a relationship than how much sex you're having or not having, or what you're doing or not doing. And is it normal? That's another thing. Is it normal that we only have sex once a month? Is it normal that we only have sex once a week?
Is it normal that our, you know, whatever it is, and it's kind of like, rather than, is it normal? Is what it is for you? Does it feel like enough? Does it feel nourishing? Does it feel healthy? Does it feel good? Does it feel good for each individual? Does it feel good for you together as a couple? What do we even mean by feeling good? What [00:13:00] does even good look like?
Hannah: And what do we even mean by sex? You know, sex means different things for different people, and I think I've been hearing, you know, this, this thought, this line of thought of sometimes people in relationships have a mismatched view on what sex is, and sometimes when they're not happy with their sex life, it could be because they're not having the sex that they want to be having, but their partner's having the sex that they want to be having.
So I guess like, you know, one part of it is, is perhaps there's a need to do some self-reflection too of what kind of sex do I want to be having? What does sex mean to me? And it's something that actually I speak to my girlfriends about quite a lot. You know, we're all, I guess, bit of a generalization, but we're all quite, um, you know, career orientated, strong minded, you know, women.
And it's taken a long time for us to realize that [00:14:00] actually what we want sexually is to be a bit more submissive. And that's a conflict. It's like an inner conflict of, oh, but I'm always in control and, you know, I, I have to be in control. Um, and, and actually we want to sort of take, take the backseat, you know, sexually because we, we have so much.
You know, and it's things like, it's just an example of having that realization that, okay, well why aren't I happy with the sex? Well, maybe it's because it's not the kind of sex I want to be having. So do you, what do you think about people's kind of taking some ownership of doing their own reflection and, and figuring out what sex means to them?
Andrea: Yes. This kind of draws a little bit back. So you've asked some really beautiful questions and there there are a few different questions in there or a few different things to consider. And we began in last, in the last episode's conversation around pleasure, we were talking about what feels like pleasure, what feels good in our bodies. And so instead of [00:15:00] even asking the question, what kind of sex am I having, it's, is the way that I'm connecting intimately feeling pleasurable?
Is it feeling like pleasure? And focusing on pleasure rather than sex, Emily Nagoski speaks about this now a lot. It's, um, a lot in her way of thinking. She's amazing if you don't know her already. Um, her work, Emily, is, is fantastic. So if we have a pleasure focus rather than a sex focus, then what might shift or change or how might we think about the experience that we're having with our partner.
And what are we, um, what are we chasing? Are we chasing something? Like are we chasing a peak experience? Are we chasing, uh, a frequency of experience? Are we chasing, what are, what are we going for here? And in sex mostly what I hear a lot of people want is connection. It's pleasure [00:16:00] for sure in their bodies and their hearts, in their being pleasure, but it's connection really underlying all of that, they want to feel connected to the other person.
Connected to their body, connected to themselves, uh, intimate with the other person. There's a sharing that wants to happen in that space alongside or together with or interwoven with an experience of pleasure. And so for many people, it's the quality of connection that brings pleasure. And then that can happen within the context of, of sex.
But it doesn't necessarily have to only be there, and it certainly doesn't have to only be in one flavor. Hollywood, thank you. Um, or vanilla sex. Yes, thank you. It can be in a variety of ways or even, um, sexual, sexual sex instead of sensual sex, or all these different other ways of experiencing intimacy and erotic energy. So [00:17:00] if, and I know we talked about speaking about tantra.
Hannah: Can’t wait to, to deep dive onto that, yeah.
Andrea: Yeah, that, in that practice certainly doesn't shy away from energetic experiences of eroticism and desire and pleasure without touch, touch at all at times. Um, and so that's, we'll put that to the side for now.
So what is pleasure for you? What is pleasure for your partner? What is pleasurable for you in coming together with another person to be in the space of the erotic, of desire, of it is, um, sensual, it's a very unique way of experiencing, let's say energy or a part of being human, a way of being human.
What does make for a beautiful, pleasurable experience for you, and what is it for your partner? And then what do you make that mean? What meaning are you making about what the quality of the experience that you've had with this person? Many people that I speak [00:18:00] with will compare it to a quality of experience they've had with someone else, uh, that may have felt more firey or may have felt what they, um, think of as better sex.
With a person that they were dating five years ago, then with the person they're now committed to or married to, and what does this mean about who I was and who I am now and how I'm experiencing pleasure now. So, so much can come up around identity and experience and meaning making that we don't often speak to as well because we're focused on frequency and peak experience and just wanting to kind of widen that landscape of all that is here.
Which is also why it can be really tough or feel difficult to talk about sex. Or feel really difficult to have these conversations because it hits on so many different layers and levels of our being, beingness and experience of being human and in relationship and in intimate relationship that it can feel [00:19:00] like quite something to navigate.
And so if you are, I'll just kind of say if you are really struggling to navigate through, you are fortunate because you have a wonderful community of open-hearted. It sounds like open-minded and, uh, wild spirited women who are willing to go there. And many women that I speak to do not have that. They are dealing with this on their own, in their own reality.
So finding community can be super, super helpful. Um, not everyone feels safe in opening up in community based on past experience they've had with being in community. So that's not necessarily going to, um, do it all unless you heal some of that, those relational wounds at the level of community.
So one-to-one with someone like a trusted, um, a trusted friend or an elder, someone who's, who's been through stuff that you feel safe and comfortable with, a non-judgmental person who's able to hear and be with things, uh, within their [00:20:00] capacity, that's enough for you, is great for, for holding. And then there are, of course, there is always nature to be in. I'll put it out there.
So being in nature can be very healing and, um, expressing yourself in nature, but then also working with someone like me, a coach or a therapist who is, um, is helping people to navigate and has been on their own journey of navigating all this stuff, uh, can be helpful and is sometimes necessary because of all the nuance. Um, and I'm not saying it just to kind of, you know, plug myself or the industry or therapists and coaches. I'm saying it because I have benefited from people who have been able to guide me very intentionally and are here to create that space for you to explore and have been trained in.
I've had a lot of training and personal and professional oftentimes, and professional experience in navigating all the intricacies of it. So, um. All of this to kind of come back to it and say, if it feels tough to talk [00:21:00] about this with your partner, it's because there is a lot that can show up and it's as simple as taking that first step.
So sometimes it is as simple as opening up that conversation to have it feel safe in the ways that we described of introducing the conversation, inviting the person into having that conversation.
Choosing together a time and a place away from that context where sex and intimacy is expected to happen or has happened or should happen, or whatever, just, um, into, uh, at a time and a place where you feel comfortable, safe, and also have the energy, so not when you're totally fatigued and taking those first steps and, um, and they, in that in of itself can be really healing and really a beautiful way to begin.
A new way of relating and being with a person that you've been with for so long. Another thing that we were speaking about kind of just in [00:22:00] conversation between the two of us. Are all the ways that we shift and change throughout our lives? Um, all the phases of life that we live through, all the different, um, transitions that we go through too. All the ways that our bodies change, all the ways that our relationship changes.
We think about even day to day how much, how much we change and shift perspective view, um, from living life. And so things are always shifting and transitioning. And so if sex used to feel good and now it doesn't, or it didn't use to feel good and now you're enjoying it more. That is totally normal.
It's also okay, and it's something to explore. It's a, it's a space or place to explore. It's maybe opening up to pleasure in a new way. Maybe it's backing away from that for a while and just letting your body settle into a new, a new space or place. Doing a bit of introspection, taking some time out from it all [00:23:00] communicating to this to your partner.
That again, it's not about what your relationship means it's something that you're experiencing now that your body feels like it needs a little bit of cocooning a lot of times. And when we talk about perimenopause or menopausal women, um, speak, speaking maybe a little bit more to people in Peri. It's, um, it's a time in life where our bodies are transitioning.
Massive hormonal shifts are happening. For some women, we want to cocoon. And so there's, I, I find it a little judgy and kind of like this thing that we feel like we have to fix the fact that maybe libido is shifting and it's related to hormonal shifts, but also thinking a little bit more about could it also be that you're transitioning into the wisdom years of your life, what you have lived and the relationships that you have had, and the relationship that you have been in may want a bit of consideration.
And what you have done [00:24:00] with your life and how you have lived your life up until now, maybe all of a sudden isn't feeling quite right anymore, or isn't working so well for you anymore, or it just feels like somehow you're shedding that skin or you've outlived it and you're not quite sure what's, what you're burning into or what you're moving, shifting into what wants to emerge.
And so in this time. Cocoon feels absolutely 100% the right thing, but it goes contrary to what we learn. And this narrative that desire is, is going down, libido, and from ever on. You're never gonna wanna have sex again. It's like, actually, maybe you just need a pause. Maybe the Meno pause is a pause also, um, kind of like a deeper level where you give yourself time for introspection and reflection and understanding before you open up to desire again, before you open up to being intimate with someone again, maybe just this is your [00:25:00] wintering for a new spring.
And unless you give that yourself that space and place to take a break without judging it or. And I totally get it. We hear so much narrative around it from here on in, it's like, are your sex drive's gonna go down? It'll never come back. And sex after 60 doesn't happen. I know we've spoken about how actually women, um, and I don't have the exact stats for it, but you can go online and you Google it, you can, or ai it, you can find the, the stuff, the, you know, evidence.
Evidence that shows, um, and also speaking to women, speaking to different women that many women, uh, have the best sex of their lives after 60, because they no longer are doing what we spoke about in the first episode of pleasing the Other and looking outwards towards, you know, is everyone okay? Is everyone all right?
Is everyone. It shifts. And, okay, what's right for me? Who do I wanna be now? Um, I'm not saying that this is a [00:26:00] thing that only happens after menopause or after peri or, it's, you know, it's different for everyone, but it can be something that, that you experience that many women actually experiences. Okay, I'm done with people pleasing.
I'm done with pleasing and appeasing. I'm ready to step into life for me. And maybe it's a shift in career, maybe it's a shift in relationship. Maybe it's a shift in, um, how you live your life.
Hannah: I love that. I love that. And I think it's like, you know, our body keeps the score right and our bodies are incredible, powerful, complicated things.
And I love this idea that like, you know, perimenopausal, going through that transition, whatever that looks like for you, it's almost like my body's telling me to stop. It's like a physiological alarm clock to stop, reflect, think about whatever aspect of your life you want to think about, but maybe like physically and, and listen to that.
And you know, importantly, as you mentioned, like communicate that if you have a partner, [00:27:00] you know, they can't read our minds, they can't read our bodies. Some can better than others, but you know, to communicate that that's what you are feeling and that doesn't, you know, write the, the next chapter of your life.
But, you know, just to feel like you can, you can navigate that with space and with time and use that as an opportunity to reflect and think actually, you know, maybe now, maybe now is the time that we can talk about sex and what that means to us. And, and I guess it would be really great to take that a step further and for those that are listening and thinking, okay, great, so.
I've got the confidence now to have that conversation with my partner, and we're going to, you know, set the time and the date we're gonna have this conversation. Okay, so what happens if in the conversation it becomes very clear that you are totally misaligned? One person wants this, the other person wants this.
They realize that, you know, they've been married for 15 years. Sex means totally different things for each of them. And actually for [00:28:00] one person, intimacy for them is a hand on a leg watching tv. And that's enough for them. And the other person, they want to have, you know, sex, they want to have traditional intercourse, and that's what intimacy is for them, and they need that. Otherwise they're not satisfied. It's just an example. What would you say, how would you navigate that with someone?
Andrea: So this is where you work with the other person to come to agreements. So it's like, okay, where can we, how can we find a middle road? How can we find a way forward so that we both feel good about what it is that we're experiencing and having and sharing, and how do we support one another in that?
And so it is a beautiful opening. I I, I've seen for couples because they'll have a much deeper understanding of the other person and a lot of compassion as well for the, what they're experiencing one either way.
So for the person who's like, I just need time off. We just had a kid, my body's not ready. I need a break. Like [00:29:00] I can't have anyone near blah. Okay. And the other person, I get that and I still feel like I need a physical closeness. I feel like I, how do we do this? Like, what happens? So how can you meet the needs of the one person for some space and meet the other needs, the needs of the other person for more intimacy, more closeness?
And I wish I could give like, oh, here's the things that you do. But it's really unique, couple per for couple.
Hannah: Sure.
Andrea: So even more kind of, uh, I guess staying the point that these conversations do want to happen so that you can find ways that work for both people, both individuals and um, and navigate that navigate your way through so that the agreements can be, they're doable.
They're, it's kind of like the smart, you know, that you have the smart goals and corporate, but it's like, are is it gonna be doable? Is it going to be, um, we would say measurable? Can we say, okay, we're doing this thing within this timeframe.
Can we sit, [00:30:00] can we agree that this is, we can both meet the expectations of the other here, and if not, can we be, can we talk about things as, as we, we move through? So finding that way of, of moving through together so that both people's needs are met. Um.
Hannah: And so let's say, I'm trying to think of a really sort of general, um, issue or topic that might arise.
'Cause obviously it's so specific from couple to couple and person to person, but let's say the classic one person in the relationship has a higher libido, bigger sex drive than the other person. Do you have any kind of tools, tricks, like strategies that can kind of help, you know, find a happy medium for that? For a couple in that position?
Andrea: Yeah, so again, various couple per couple and depends on the, the two people in the relationship and each individual as well, what they're okay with. But a lot of times. It's really [00:31:00] super important not to shame someone who has a very vibrant libido because people can also be shamed for wanting and desiring sex quite a lot.
Uh, and it’s, it's very natural for some people to feel a lot of desire, a lot of kind of erotic energy, and that's wonderful. And it's also very natural for other people to not have very much desire at all. And so it's kind of like there's not one that's better or worse than the other. It's just this question of, and how do we meet each other when there's such a discrepancy or what feels like a discrepancy in how we wanna experience pleasure and how much we wanna experience.
So what I often will ask is, do you have a healthy self-pleasure practice for the person with a higher libido who wants a lot more to connect a lot more with that energy and express it in the world. Yeah. And their life. Um, do you have ways to, to move that, move with the energy, enjoy it, get nourished by it, and not necessarily have [00:32:00] it depend on having the other person there with you.
So do you have a healthy relationship to self pleasure? And, um, if you, if you can, if you do feel open to that and wanna explore it, uh, it doesn't mean that you'll never have sex again. The meaning that we're making or the assumptions that we then have that Oh, they're having, you know, more sex with their vibrator than they're with me now.
Hannah: Yeah, sure.
Andrea: And that means I'm not showing up enough, you know, like all the things can come up. Also with, with any of the, or like self-pleasure when I'm in a relationship like that person, you know, that just means again, like what are we making it mean? So, um, but if that energy is there. Erotic energy is creative life force energy, and there are different ways that we can express it.
There are different ways that we can use it and, and in our lives. So one way is by having sex with our partner, but other ways are, um, to, to, to channel [00:33:00] that energy into, into work or into a creative project or in, in these. It sounds less, it almost sounds less sexy in a way, but creative energy is creative energy.
Life force energy is life force energy. So if we take some of that expression, some of that way of being and channel it into a healthy, um, other space or place, then what might that look like and how might that feel? It's a totally different way of being with that energy when it's alive and within us, because we think the only solution for, uh, expressing it is through intercourse.
Or sex. And it doesn't have to necessarily be. So for the person, so if a person has a really vibrant libido, and then I'll often ask that question first. Are there other ways that you express this? How does this show up in your life? Um, and see what feels good for them for the couple and for someone who has a lower libido, if they are okay with it.
They're like, I'm totally fine [00:34:00] with this. It's just that I can't meet my partner where they wanna be met. So how can I show up? It's, um, also exploring. Okay. Is there, are there ways for you to show up and be with a person where you also still feel really good about showing up and being there with them, but don't necessarily have to be doing the thing.
Are there ways that you, um, are happy to show up and be with them? Are there other ways to like, you know, exchange, um, exchange energy? Can it, instead of intercourse, be sensual touch? Does it always want to be sexualized? And again, this is for the couple, it's like one person may be like, yeah, if they would show up just like that, then that'd be fine.
I'm great to be supported in that. And, but other, uh, someone else might say, oh, that's not quite enough. Or the person with low libido might say, yeah, but I wanna work on my desire because, so if they do say that and they feel like there's something more there that wants to be explored, then we'll begin to look at the supports. [00:35:00]
That can be created for the person to support, um, a fire, so to speak. So sometimes, again, Emily Nagoski describes this, uh, well through her work. Though I know the research comes from, um, also for another place is what are the breaks on desire and what are the gaps? What are the things that put the pedal to the metal?
And the more we remove the brakes, like a cold room, like it's cold. I just don't wanna, just wanna get warm. Okay. So we'll heat the room up. What's another kind of thing that might put a break on? Mm. I don't know. I just don't feel so good in my body. Okay, can we work on body image stuff? Take some of the breaks off there.
That could be a big one. Um, take some of the breaks off there so that desire is more free to kind of. Come through or, uh, so removing the brakes will put, uh, more gas on the accelerator just naturally. So sometimes it's about that. Um. And [00:36:00] then to your point, okay, so these are different ways to kind of work with each individual, but then coming to that space of, okay, we're both doing our own independent things.
This is gonna be a journey that we're gonna be on together. Over time, it'll shift and change. Are we okay with, does it feel good that we know we're both doing our things and we're checking in with each other along the way? And sharing experience where it feels like and where we agree to share. And then having that own personal exploration privately where it feels like we wanna just have that for ourselves.
And so how are we navigating this journey to come to a place where it feels good for us to, uh, to be, to be with us together, maybe in different. In different ways. These are just a few of the ways, there are many ways to explore it.
Hannah: I feel like what I'm hearing is actually one of the biggest breaks, you know, to your, the terminology is lack of communication.
And it all kind of stems back to this openness and, and communicating. What you need or, um, you know, [00:37:00] just even starting that conversation in the first place in a relationship and, and redefining, figuring out what your sex language is, I guess. I dunno if that's a thing, but I'm making it a thing.
Um, you know, because it might be that. Your libido is actually, well, you know, I don't want the kind of sex that my partner wants, and that's become sex. So actually I've muddled it up in my brain since it's been so long that I think I don't want sex, but actually I just don't want that kind of sex, you know?
And through having a conversation about it, you are actually finding a new sex that is exciting and that you wanna have, and it might be that that's just. Having a passionate kiss, you know, without assuming that that's gonna turn into, you know, intercourse because that's what you don't want. You don't want that right now.
You don't want that to happen every time, you know? So I feel like it's such a huge break perhaps for everyone is lack of communication and through having an open conversation, things will [00:38:00] become clearer. You'll remove some of those. You know, those breaks. And it sounds like, you know, it can kind of, it can only be positive in that you just, you discover new things or you figure out that actually, um, you know, there's, there's work that needs to be done.
Andrea: Mm, definitely. There is a really, um. The work of Jaiya is really beautiful. She was, she was on Goop as well. So if you haven't watched Sex, Love & Goop, it's great. Love it. Uh, and Jaiya's, one of the practitioners on there and her, um, what she's developed is Erotic Blueprint. It's called the Erotic Blueprint. So understanding how you express.
Your sexuality or maybe erotic energy or desire, how that shows up for you and how it might be different. Kind of like a lot of people are familiar with love languages, um, or the love language, um, the work of a person, I can't remember the name of right now. But it, that, that framework can help people to [00:39:00] understand, okay, my expression of the erotic looks like this and it's different from my partners.
So it's not. It's not wrong or it's not less than, or it's not better than sometimes people will think, oh, it's better than, um, it's just different. And so if you do, uh, Jaiya's got a great, you can do, I think the erotic blueprint still, you can answer a few questions, understand what your blueprint is, and then it's very similar to the love languages.
Support your partner in experiencing the kind of pleasure that's meant. For them that comes through them naturally and easily. Uh, and it might look a lot different from the way that you experience pleasure or how you define pleasure at all. So, um, so yeah, that can also be, it can also be really super helpful.
It's something that I also, some of her work I do with couples in the work that I do, because it's really great in understanding, okay, this is what it. Is for me to experience pleasure. It looks like this. It's more, [00:40:00] um, for example, some people are more energetic, like we were talking about, where they feel a lot of energy flowing, the erotic energy moving through, and it's very gentle, very subtle kind of.
A lot of times, a lot very sensual. And for their partner, they'd be very, may be very sexual in their blueprint. So they like a lot, a lot more touch, a very physical kind of raw desire, a very physical way of having sex, which sounds like it could be a complete mismatch and in some ways it kind of is, because it's like with the love languages where there's a mismatch doesn't mean.
You now need to go find a partner who has your love language or shares the same erotic blueprint. It's kind of like, oh, I'll explore their world and they'll explore mine. And there's something beautiful in that too, because you're living a different kind of eroticism or pleasure than you might normally.
And what's wrong with that? It's like beautiful. So, um. Coming back [00:41:00] to like, we go out there. Coming back to the original question of yeah. How to talk about sex in a long-term relationship. It's, um, I like to think about it as a gateway to learning your partner in a whole new way. Experiencing your partner in a way that you never had before.
Have before on levels and in dimensions that you may not have explored. And. Again, each individual person is changing and shifting. So much day by day, year by year, over time, who is the person that you're with now and getting super curious about what is there for them now. Um, and what might be there for the two of you to explore together, uh, that you haven't before?
Because things were different before and now you're a whole new. A new person, a new being, and in a new relationship almost. So there's a lot of opportunity for discovery and for newness and for, um, [00:42:00] for learning. Another that may be, I know everything. They think I know everything that they say. Yeah, but do you, because yesterday you thought you knew yourself, and today you're totally a different person and you thought you were gonna be a different way in a certain situation, but you're not.
So now times that by two. It's kind of like, okay, how can we get curious about what, uh, what the other person may be experiencing?
Hannah: It's really exciting. It gets me excited. You know, the thought of like one conversation can totally transform the course of your relationship in a really positive, beautiful, enriching, pleasurable way, and I think that's really cool.
I hope everyone else. As excited as I'm to go home and have this conversation with my partner.
Andrea: I was gonna say, are you gonna do it?
Hannah: Yeah, I think so. Why not?
Andrea: Yeah.
Hannah: But no, thank you so much. I mean, it's super informative and it's definitely helped me and I'm sure everyone else at home, so thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. And it's not all doom and gloom if you think you're stuck. [00:43:00] There’s a way out and it’s drinking.
Andrea: Yeah, there's a way through.
Hannah: Yeah, there's a way through rather than out.
Andrea: Yeah.
Hannah: And it's great to hear that there's actual terminology for what I call love language. It's actual erotic blueprint.
Andrea: Yeah.
Hannah: There we go. You learn something new every day.
Andrea: Great, yeah.
Hannah: Thank you so much.
Andrea: My pleasure. Thank you.
Hannah and I would love to hear from you, especially if what we've discussed has been something you've been sitting with for a while. Comment on this episode or connect with us on Instagram to continue the conversation. And if today's discussion stirred something deeper in you and you'd like to explore your own relationship with intimacy in a more personalized way, I'm here for that too.
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